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Post by Chris on Feb 7, 2023 11:36:08 GMT -5
C. I found it a pretty interesting take on AD&D. Some of it was a bit over the top for actual game play but we played it for a good long time before the release of OSRIC and other OSR products
R. No it isn't
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Post by Chris on Feb 7, 2023 11:37:02 GMT -5
C. It adds a lot of baggage to combat, slowing things right down. (20 hp ablative hit points per monster, crits, armor damage, fatigue rules etc.) If it has an achilles heel, it is that. Note that 3E and 4E D&D suffer from slow combat as well. 5E D&D I've never tried, but to run a campaign in a slow system is a waste of everyone's time.
R. Yer doing it wrong, mate
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Post by Chris on Feb 7, 2023 11:37:57 GMT -5
C. I've looked through 4e, but the serialized nature of the monster manual turned me off. I am, as you know, a booster of 5e, these days.
R. What?
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Post by Chris on Feb 7, 2023 11:41:07 GMT -5
C. And, for me, the parody was always a barrier to the game, especially when it carried over to book design (i.e. in order to have a complete set of monsters, you had to buy 8 $20 monster books). The attitude of the game was annoying, and discouraged people from investigating the game, or from considering it as anything other than a parody game.
R. Parody had nothing to do with the Hacklopedias. I disagree completely with the annoying part.
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Post by Chris on Feb 7, 2023 11:42:14 GMT -5
C. How do I handle matching monsters to the players level as hackfactor is a joke... apparently.
R. Poorly worded and inccorrect
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Post by Chris on Feb 7, 2023 11:44:21 GMT -5
C. Hackmaster 4E is well nigh unplayable, that's the bad news. You can't even create a character, nor go through all the combat baggage in a reasonable amount of time. A shame, because it has X factor in spades.
R. Unplayable by you, maybe. Define reasonable amount of time. Here's an opinion that has been presented as fact (my least favorite thing about the internet)
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Post by Chris on Feb 7, 2023 11:45:11 GMT -5
C. I was unable to even complete making a character in HM4e. I did give it a solid go, but couldn't follow the process. I've made champions characters, and that's some work. I've made characters for every D&D edition, while 3e and 5e may take some time unless you slap something together without a care, they're fully completable.
R. I have made hundreds
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Post by Chris on Feb 7, 2023 11:46:54 GMT -5
C. I didn't have anyone to help me. I was going to be the DM, but not being able to complete a character, I couldn't recommend it to my players. It's been a long time since I tried and don't remember where I got hung up. Unfortunately my books are packed up from moving and I'm in a temporary situation and don't have anywhere to unpack them so I can't try again right now.
R. Giving-up person gave up. Feels the need to let everyone know they gave up. Reason for giving up is they gave up.
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Post by Chris on Feb 7, 2023 11:51:38 GMT -5
C. Now, if we wanted to point to the true difficulties of the system, that's fine. I can tell you where it's harder/there are new rules. On levelling up (not at first level, at second), your stats increase incrementally by percentage points determined by class. There's a table for it. But, they also increase by percentage based on honor die. The honor die is a static die based on your honor and your level. This often confuses players.
Or, if we looked at the use of the honor die, great honor gives a +1 to certain rolls, but it's not clear what all rolls do and don't count. The +1 doesn't apply, for instance, to surprise checks. But it does apply to to-hit. Etc. Since almost no character is great honor at level 1, it really doesn't matter until getting further into the adventure.
Or, for many quirks, the DMG is unclear on exactly how and when to apply certain penalties vs. not and how those quirks truly affect gameplay. Based off the PHB, it reads as if some are RP only effects while the DMG gives indications otherwise. Etc. Note, for the most part, this has no impact on gameplay anyway, as most of those are relatively minor impacts to begin with (and the only boon to the quirks is having slightly more points to put into skills which has minimal impact in general on the system).
Or, some of the skills seem redundant and it's unclear where exactly what skills apply to what situations and how. Again, more of a DM thing, and not really a player thing. But it follows the old school motto, "Make rulings not rules".
Or the piercing, penetration, crushing, etc. damage with modifiers to critical hit tables vs. modified attack results, in combination with called shots. Right--a very esoteric rule and how it interacts. It's complicated. Perhaps too complicated given it's just a way to generate how bad a critical hit is and how much damage/other effects it causes. But again, we're not talking character generation. We're also not talking general combat. We're talking very esoteric rules. In the same way that there are very esoteric rules from any edition that are complicated and cause confusion (Evidenced by the countless DF threads on them)--but the system as a whole isn't that way.
R. Cracks knuckles. Not sure why the leveleing up is listed as a confusing problem when he explains it in his post. I find this to be a confusing problem. Same for great honor, he says it doesn't say what it applies to and then says what it applies to. As far as Quirks and flaws, yes there is additional (not differing) information in the GMG that exactly tells you how to apply it in game. Soo, uhh, yeah. Redundant skills requiring rulings? What redundant skills? And rulings is what being a DM is about. Weapon type vs armor is easy and yes, called shots are difficult - they should be. It would be game-breaking otherwise.
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